DEA to allow CoR members to smoke Pot?, I got a letter from the DEA and they are considering it! Options

[Marc]

I have some news that is interesting, exciting, and thought provoking. But before I get into that I want to clear up 2 rumors.

First - I am not the father of Anna Nichole Smith's baby. And - I am formally announcing that I am NOT going to run for president in 2008.

Now that I have that cleared up, last year the United States Supreme Court made a decision in the case of Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Wegetal. 126 S. Ct. 1211, 1219 (2006). This case established that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act gives people the right to put religious freedom ahead of federal law under certain circumstances. As a result this particular religion was given the right to take hallucinogenic Schedule 1 drugs. This puts religion in a very powerful position.

The decision upheld that the federal government cannot impose a "substantial burden" on an individual's or group's free exercise of religion unless the burden: "(1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest." Many of you might be concerned about what this might lead to but the way I see it, this is a significant advancement for personal freedom. At least - that's the way I see it. The reason is that the church of Reality is a religion and we have this kind of power just like any other religion. The Church of Reality can be the bridge that puts this kind of personal freedom into the hands of Realists.

In response to this decision I wrote a letter to the DEA asking for an exemption for members of the Church of Reality to have a drug exemption from the DEA as the facts of our case is identical to the one thy ruled on. As many of you know, the Church of Reality was a Marijuana inspired idea and most of the Sacred Principles, all of the Sacred Missions, and the Sacred Contemplation were written when I was stoned.

Last week I received a reply for the DEA that in their reply it is clear that they are taking our request seriously. Included are 3 pages of what I consider to be very good questions. Questions that will take some thinking and introspection to answer correctly. I believe that the DEA is just a government institution who has to follow the law as the courts interpret it. Last year the court said that the DEA has to have a procedure to deal with providing exemptions to religions who are legally entitled to have exemptions. This is no small challenge for the DEA to implement.

The Church of Reality is not a druggie religion. Our position is that one should use substances responsibly. We do however have chemically driven brains that can emulate logic. It is well established that smoking Marijuana can inspire creative thinking and I can tell you that this religion would not exist if not for Pot. I know that this might make some of you uncomfortable but that is the reality behind the history of this religion.

I am not a lawyer but I have extensive legal experience and I have had many lawyers tell me that I'm quite good at it, especially on Constitutional issues. I see this as a significant opportunity to be able to put individual right ahead of federal laws that restrict personal freedom that have no basis in reality or science.

Many of you might want to debate about whether or not the Church of Reality or any religion should have this power. But the reality is - we have it, and the Supreme Court upheld it, and we can turn this into a really positive thing. The advantage of starting with Marijuana is that the facts are identical to what the court just ruled on. Once we get this far it is going to open a lot of eyes and create interesting possibilities where to go next.

I'm comfortable admitting to the DEA that I'm a Marijuana user because if they charged me then it would actually get us a decision faster as the federal courts would have to dismiss based on the Supreme Court decision.

I scanned the letter from DEA and posted it here:

http://www.churchofreality.org/images/dea1.gif
http://www.churchofreality.org/images/dea2.gif
http://www.churchofreality.org/images/dea3.gif
http://www.churchofreality.org/images/dea4.gif
http://www.churchofreality.org/images/dea5.gif

I could use some help - if someone could transcribe these questions and email it to me it would save me a lot of time.

Hey Marc I had that idea ever since the case came out! Good to see that you've came to that same tactic. I thought it might be used as a drawing factor to the CoR or in the worst case people join up the CoR so that they could get a religious exemption. By the way there should be some official way to say you are a member of the CoR. I don't know how other religious groups do it. UUs give you a card and an official induction in front of a congregation...that was years ago when I was a member of that church. Maybe a signature that you believe in the Sacred Principles.

Anyways one way I thought could elevate the name of the CoR would be to do one of our own Youtube challenge. Talk about the how you are a realist and how you came to the CoR, smoke one up and declare your legal rights under the Supreme court case. Heh it could be a viral video PR stunt. Not sure if it would attract a lot of Posers though. Another thing we could do is make a page and use a social networking site like Digg/Rediff and see if it gets popular. Lately I've seen a lot of drug related posts that gets "digged", so that's another strategy.

BTW for those who aren't familiar with this case can read a good overview on Wikipedia:

This case was interesting to me because it was a unanimous decision and we can use the same angle as the UDV did.

skinny

[Marc]

I've been giving the membership issue some thought and at first I was thinking along the same line. However now I think not. If a Jehovah's Witness decides to refuse a blood transfusion on religious grounds they don't have to pull out a church issued ID card to prove they are JW. So why should we, unless the DEA is going to require all religions to carry ID cards.

My inclination now is to let the lawmakers and the courst figure it out. Our policy is that people can convert to reality at any moment. In fact, if someone is spread eagle on the hood of a cop car, that kind of experience could trigger a religious experience where they accept reality in that moment and become a Realist. Who am I to issue ID cards to determine who is and who isn't a Realist?

Different people pursue reality in their own way within the limits of their ability. My ability is limited too. As long as a person is making a sincere effort to embrace reality as it really is then that is sufficient to be a church member. It may be a problem for the DEA, legislature, and the courst to figure out but that's their problem. I'm not sure it is our place to make that decision any more than it's their place to determine CoR doctrine.

If someone claims to have a sincere dedication to the understanding of the real world it would be up to the government to prove otherwise.

It's a problem. But I don't know if it's our problem.

[Guest_Truth Warrior_*]

Marc --

Somewhat off topic, but not really. <IMHO> Sometimes I think that you really "get it". For an example: http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/self_ownership/ . Yet at other times, I am equally absolutely positive and convinced that you do not at all. Perhaps it is my confusion on what you mean by "ownership", but I don't think so. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ownership The distinction that I make is more along the line of, "self ownership" = "personal ( individual ) sovereignty". HELP!!

Thanks!

HAGO!

CYL

I created a Digg submission. Go ahead and digg it! I think it should help gather some support.

[Marc]

The Questions: Let's get the answered. Anyone see anything tricky here?





DEA intends to treat your request as a petition for a religious exemption from the CSA. Your petition, however, does not provide enough information to permit full consideration at this time. Accordingly, we are requesting more detailed information about, among other things, your religion (its structure, organization and belief system), the specific religious practice that involves the use, possession, or distribution of marijuana, the marijuana that you wish to use, and the conditions of its anticipated use, possession or distribution. Your supplemental submission may include a written statement and supporting documents. This information will be fully considered before a decision is issued on your petition. It must be emphasized that your supplemental submission of information cannot guarantee any particular outcome. Your petition, along with other factors – such as DEA’s governmental interests in restricting the use, possession, or distribution of marijuana – must be fully evaluated.



We offer the following list of questions as guidance on the issues you may wish to address in your supplemental submission. While a few of these questions may have been addressed in your initial letter, you may take this opportunity to supplement those responses as well.

• Questions about the Church of Reality’s Organization and Structure.

• Please describe the history of the Church of Reality, including the date and circumstances of its founding.

• How many branches of the Church of Reality exist in the United States?

• Please describe the number and geographical distribution of the members of the Church of Reality.

• What affiliation, if any, does the Church of Reality have with other religions that use marijuana?

• What distinguishes the Church of Reality from these groups?

• Please describe the qualifications for membership in the Church of Reality and any restrictions or formal requirements for membership.

• How are new members brought into the Church?

• Please describe the Church of Reality’s structure and hierarchy.

• Please describe any Church of Reality gathering places, as well as the frequency with which Church members congregate.

• Questions about the Church of Reality’s Belief System.

• Please describe the ultimate ideas or fundamental questions addressed by the Church of Reality.

• Please describe the Church of Reality’s moral or ethical code.

• Please describe any Church holidays and explain their significance.

• Please provide any written documents such as pamphlets, tracts, brochures, articles, bylaws, or points of order that may be of assistance in understanding the teachings and/or theology of the Church of Reality.

• What are the role and the significance of marijuana use in the Church? Please provide any available documentation.

• What are the role and the significance of marijuana distribution, if any, in the Church? Please provide any available documentation.

• Is marijuana a sacrament in the Church? If so, what does it represent? Who is permitted to administer the sacrament?

• Questions about the Church of Reality’s Use or Distribution of Marijuana.

• Your request indicates that the Church wants to “focus on starting with a limited use of marijuana”? Please describe, in detail, the limited use exemption that you are requesting.

• Would your “limited use” of marijuana include the distribution of this controlled substance?

• Please describe in detail the context in which marijuana is used by the Church of Reality members.

• Please describe all the Church of Reality ceremonies, rituals, services, or other events that involve marijuana, including the frequency of such events. Please provide any available documentation discussing these events.

• How often do Church members use marijuana?

• How many Church members use marijuana as part of their religious practice?

• What quantity of marijuana is used by each member at one time?

• Are Church members required to use marijuana?

• Who within the Church is permitted and/or required to use marijuana?

• May Church members abstain entirely from marijuana use? If so, under what circumstances?

• Do Church members have alternatives to marijuana use? If so, under what circumstances? What are those alternatives?

• Does the Church of Reality have a position regarding the use of marijuana outside of Church ceremonies, rituals, services, or other events? What is that position?

• Does the Church of Reality require use of marijuana be limited to a particular location?

• Please describe all locations where Church members would use marijuana.

• Do Church members intend to use marijuana together at a central location, or do they intend to use it at their individual homes or other locations?

• Does Church doctrine require or encourage distribution of marijuana to Church members or others? Please elaborate and provide any available documentation.
• What, if any, requirement does the Church impose on the activity of members after marijuana use? How are such requirements enforced?

• What, if any, requirement does the Church impose on the activity of members prior to marijuana use? How are such requirements enforced?

• Are there any restrictions on the use of marijuana among Church members? If so, what are these restrictions?

• Do members of the Church of Reality share marijuana with non-members? If so, under what circumstances and for what purpose?

• Is marijuana ever used by the Church of Reality members for medical, rather than religious, purposes?

• Does the Church of Reality have a position regarding the use of other controlled substances by its members? If so, what is that position? Is that position enforced in some way with respect to Church members? If so, how?

• Your request indicates that you propose that your members would obtain marijuana from sources in California that are currently used by “medical marijuana” users. Please explain this plan in greater detail.

• What quantity of marijuana does the Church wish to obtain? How frequently do you anticipate that the Church would need to obtain this amount?

• How and where will the Church and its members store the marijuana?

• What security measures will the Church or its members employ to prevent the marijuana from being stolen or misused?

[Anthraxus]

• What are the role and the significance of marijuana use in the Church? Please provide any available documentation.

• What are the role and the significance of marijuana distribution, if any, in the Church? Please provide any available documentation.

• Is marijuana a sacrament in the Church? If so, what does it represent? Who is permitted to administer the sacrament?

These three are critical to answer correctly, with the third being the trickiest of the set. In the court case that led to this the hallucinogens that they take are considered sacrament to the Church. We have to present the case that Marijuana is similarly held in such esteem by CoR members.

Before further discussion a definitino of sacrament is required. I propose something along this line: "A sacrament is an act or rite performed to acquire a unique state of understanding in which to contemplate the underlying principles and precepts of the religion". This is derived from the following explanation: The root meaning of the Latin word sacramentum is to "make sacred". Views concerning both what rites are sacramental, and what it means for an act to be sacramental vary among Christian denominations and traditions.


I'll add some more depth to this explanantion later this evening when I have more time.

[RareBear]

Nothing like kicking a sleeping giant. I now feel the need to censor myself.

[jsessa]

But what of the ones of us, like me, who do not use relaxation concoctions such as marijuana or alcohol? I believe in the Church of Reality, but I don’t want to indulge in the sacred rite of communion with my inner self through a mind altering substance. Do I still have to smoke or drink?

I would rather contemplate my actions as well as my motivations on a day to day, hour to hour basis. I know I’m far from perfect and I let my evil pride rule my deepest emotions of fear, but I think I would be better served if I studied myself in an open and honest environment of a clear mind.

But hey that’s just me.

But I will not stand in the way of any religion or credo that supports intoxication, mild or otherwise, for the general understanding of you and what you perceive as the world around you.

As long as someone else’s belief does not interfere with me or attempts to dissuade me to their way of think, then I am quit fine with that.

As for legitimizing Marijuana for the Church of Reality, go for it. Damn Christians get snookered on cheap wine for their services under the disguise that it is to commune with some holy spirit or such, so why not let everyone enjoy what they want!

By the way, how does the Church of Reality feel about nudity during services? With summertime right around the corner and Gunnison Beach not too far away from me, I just may want to indulged in getting as close to nature as possible.

Oh, did I forget to mention that Gunnison Beach is part of a national park that allows nudist to be nude? Hey if the nudies can take on the Feds and win, then why not the Church of Realty?

Rock, roll up a tight one and smoke it!
These are your freedoms to do or not do as you please. Just remember the nudist credo, don’t take any freedom lightly.

[RareBear]

Must have taken a mighty bong hit to produce those clouds.

[Marc]

Pot use is not required. Pot is self administered. It can be done alone or in a group. It is a right for those who want it.

[jsessa]

Pot use is not required. Pot is self administered. It can be done alone or in a group. It is a right for those who want it.

Whew! I thought I’d have to get back in that high school mentality of 35 years ago!

I wonder though... Just how are you going to convince the Feds that smoking pot is essential to the Church? Especially when there is no structure or designation of a sacred area?

Are you going to propose that where there is a Realist there is a sacrament of communion with the Greatness of… well whatever?

Good luck with that and I will be most interested to see how this works out.

[RareBear]

I'll administer my own weed if someone would just adminster me a light.

I created a Digg submission. Go ahead and digg it! I think it should help gather some support.

Good going there, but doesn't look like it got dugg up the front page. On the other hand, this one got over 1500 diggs

http://digg.com/health/Marijuana_Kills_Cancer_suck_it_DEA

I'll have to take some time to read the DEA documents, but it seems like they are trying to find out if this a valid principle of a religious organization.

skinny

[Plutodog]

Holy Noodly Appendages! That questionnaire makes my mind start to fog over and my joints ache. I think I'd rather do my taxes. Oh First One, you might want to smoke a bowl prior to drafting responses to each question. . .



Me, I'll just have a beer, thanks...

Woof Woof

I don't see how salvia and alcohol are both used for religious purposes but MJ isn't.

Alright, I'm new, and I'm just now going through the church policy, rules, beliefs, etc. It's all quite well organized.

Parts of the questionnaire that might be of particular importance, in my opinion:


* Your request indicates that the Church wants to “focus on starting with a limited use of marijuana”? Please describe, in detail, the limited use exemption that you are requesting.



* Would your “limited use” of marijuana include the distribution of this controlled substance?

Careful with your wording on both of those.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/faclib...niao_Do_Vegetal

That's a link to the court case. It's good news that it won in the supreme court 8-0, that means there's significant support for the religious waiver.

Hey, im new around here and I was wondering what the membership process entailed, other than joining the site of course. I was just thinking that IF the DEA agrees to let the CoR smoke pot what could I use as evidence of my membership? Seeing as how its still illegal to smoke pot (outside of religion) this seems to be a rather prominent point. Please let me know if you know anything concerning this.
-Chris

Wow it was only minutes ago that I just checked this page and it looks like we got a Digg effect. (1450 users reading this topic) The article was at 26 when I dugg it, and now it's at 223. Look out they are coming! Heh look out Marc could be on the front page of High Time/Cannabis Culture if this kinda publicity keeps up.

skinny

you guys are heading in the wrong direction with the pot thing.

the more you intertwine it into the church, with say a sacrament, more it isn't going to work. Realistically you will need to establish the ideology, since this is a church of reality, you are talking about objectivism, you all should do some reading on that, i imagine that the highest holding of the church, since you are saying reality is your god essentially, would be that the mind is a sacred place and the efficacy of reason is the highest pursuit of which we can be apart.

The fact that someone who understands reality can smoke pot because they understand that no one, not even a compulsory body such as a government has a right to infringe their god given rights. Since our god is reality, then the reasoning is, that each person has a right to decide based on their own teleological judgments what to put into their bodies, and no one has the right to compromise our "religious freedom"

we religiously believe in the right of a person to obey the laws of nature, AND THINK!!!

that is all we do as humans, and our process can be flawed, in order to have a solid logic you have to constantly and perpetually check your logical assertions against reality(which is your measure of how well your mind has eliminated contradictions from your thought processes)

of course we will always be capable of poor judgment or faulty reasoning, this is why we need to be checking our results against reality, the ultimate score sheet.

You should be saying that we draw our inalienable rights from the fact that we exist and the fact that we think. A man who can't think to defend his own rights has little hope of exercising them with any regularity or certainty. We have to make sure that the government respects the fact that logic is our religion, and the efficacy of reason over "believing" is how we distinguish our church from all others. We have a right to defend our vision of mind and body from the thralling hordes of people who would give up rights they don't understand, or want, or exercise the necessary faculty(thinking rationally) to have and maintain rights that are derived from reality.


Reality and our observance of it is what gives us the right to smoke or not smoke, to drink or not, and ultimately to think or not, which is why its legal to believe in Gods of any kind.

So our god is reality, which can only be properly understood by a rational mind that attempts to eliminate contradictions from our understandings.


El jefe