Reality Development Lab: Peak Oil - Reality Development Lab

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Peak Oil I actually kinda believe in this. Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   dil Icon

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 11:35 PM

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

An Excerpt:

Quote

The issue is not one of "running out" so much as it is not having enough to keep our economy running. In this regard, the ramifications of Peak Oil for our civilization are similar to the ramifications of dehydration for the human body. The human body is 70 percent water. The body of a 200 pound man thus holds 140 pounds of water. Because water is so crucial to everything the human body does, the man doesn't need to lose all 140 pounds of water weight before collapsing due to dehydration. A loss of as little as 10-15 pounds of water may be enough to kill him.

In a similar sense, an oil-based economy such as ours doesn't need to deplete its entire reserve of oil before it begins to collapse. A shortfall between demand and supply as little as 10-15 percent is enough to wholly shatter an oil-dependent economy and reduce its citizenry to poverty.

The effects of even a small drop in production can be devastating. For instance, during the 1970s oil shocks, shortfalls in production as small as 5% caused the price of oil to nearly quadruple. The same thing happened in California a few years ago with natural gas: a production drop of less than 5% caused prices to skyrocket by 400%.

Fortunately, those price shocks were only temporary.


The coming oil shocks won't be so short-lived. They represent the onset of a new, permanent condition. Once the decline gets under way, production will drop (conservatively) by 3% per year, every year.


That estimate comes from numerous sources, not the least of which is Vice President Dick Cheney himself. In a 1999 speech he gave while still CEO of Halliburton, Cheney stated:


By some estimates, there will be an average of two-percent

annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead,

along with, conservatively, a three-percent natural decline

in production from existing reserves.That means by 2010 we

will need on the order of anadditional 50 million barrels a

day.


Cheney's assesement is supported by the estimates of numerous non-political, retired, and now disinterested scientists, many of whom believe global oil production will peak and go into terminal decline within the next five years. Unfortunately, many of these experts are no where near as optimistic as Dick Cheney was in 1999. Andrew Gould, CEO of the giant oil services firm Schlumberger, for instance, recently explained the global decline rate may be far higher than what Cheney predicted seven years ago:


An accurate average decline rate is hard to estimate, but an

overall figure of 8% is not an unreasonable assumption.

An 8% yearly decline would cut global oil production by a whopping 50% in under nine years. If a 5% cut in production caused prices to triple in the 1970s, what do you think a 50% cut is going to do?

Other experts are predicting decline rates as high as 10%-to-13%. Some geologists expect 2005 to be the last year of the cheap-oil bonanza, while many estimates coming out of the oil industry indicate "a seemingly unbridgeable supply-demand gap opening up after 2007," which will lead to major fuel shortages and increasingly severe blackouts beginning around 2008-2012. As we slide down the downslope slope of the global oil production curve, we may find ourselves slipping into what some scientists are calling the "post-industrial stone age."

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#2 Guest_Truth Warrior_*

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 12:24 AM

dil --

My research on "Peak Oil" leads me to the conclusion that it is a controversial and disputed subject, for now. With misinfo and disinfo on both sides of the issue. Your guess! :)
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Posted 14 April 2006 - 01:58 AM

View PostTruth Warrior, on Apr 13 2006, 08:24 PM, said:

dil --

My research on "Peak Oil" leads me to the conclusion that it is a controversial and disputed subject, for now. With misinfo and disinfo on both sides of the issue. Your guess! :)


My investigations makes me think its mostly true, at least as to the fact that cheap oil is getting very scarse and that we now have to rely on more and more expensive stuff that's hard to extract.
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#4 User is offline   dil Icon

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 12:12 AM

View PostBenE, on Apr 13 2006, 06:58 PM, said:

My investigations makes me think its mostly true, at least as to the fact that cheap oil is getting very scarse and that we now have to rely on more and more expensive stuff that's hard to extract.


It's not a matter of running out, it's a matter of economical meltdown due to our over-dependence on this cursed product.
~I disagree with everything you have to say and with everything you haven't said :)
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#5 User is offline   Marc Icon

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 03:17 AM

Have you all heard about this new development where they can make deisel fuel from coal? That souns like something that's pretty close.
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 06:08 AM

Why even bother with another harmful product, like coal, when we have a perfect substitute for petrodiesel

biodiesel.org

Nick
The Dangers of Thinking Positive.
Psychologists say -- Think Positive. Scientists say –Think Positive. Everyone says – Think Positive.
Arctic ice is melting – Glaciers are melting – Rivers are drying up. Think Positive.
Fish population in Oceans is down to 1/3 of what it was 100 years ago.Think Positive.
Pollution levels are going sky-high and valley-deep. Think Positive.
There used to be millions of members in most species of Animals and Birds. Now they are down to thousands and hundreds. Think Positive.
Weather is getting more and more irregular and unpredictable.Think Positive.
Thinking positive is the height of insanity.
This is a world that has become completely incapable of feeling Pain, Compassion, Remorse and Guilt.
The planet is getting destroyed moment by moment – and people are thinking positive.
Very soon there will be 1 Animal and 1 Tree left in this world – and people will still be thinking positive.
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 10:55 AM

There are vast, barely tapped, oil reserves in Canada. Second only to Saudi Arabia. We're already the US's number one supplier of oil, natural gas and plain old electricity. So fuggedaboutit! We've got you covered for the next century.

...unless China offers us a better price ;)
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 11:10 AM

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Hmm..... Canada the 51st state, has kind of a nice ring to it. And it's sure a lot closer than Iraq. :-D
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 11:20 AM

View PostAvatar, on Apr 16 2006, 06:55 AM, said:

There are vast, barely tapped, oil reserves in Canada. Second only to Saudi Arabia. We're already the US's number one supplier of oil, natural gas and plain old electricity. So fuggedaboutit! We've got you covered for the next century.

...unless China offers us a better price ;)


Barely tapped oil reserves exist all over the place. The problem with a lot of them is they are very hard to extract and/or refine. That is the case with a lot of (if not all of) the oil that Russia might supply. The oil off California is a similar situation although last time I heard much about it they had improved the processing of it. Something about the "gravity" measurement.

Not sure if this applies as regards Canadian oil reserves, but it is definitely a consideration with a lot of what's out there.

We really need to just move on from oil as much as is humanly possible. But when the chairman of Exxon is getting a $400 million retirement package, and his partners in crime at the other oil companies are pulling down huge salaries, bonuses, etc., you gotta know they ain't in any rush to let alternative fuels take hold. Which of them would want to be the one to recommend pursuing alternatives to their boards? ("Why spoil a good thing? We'll be dead before it's a REAL problem, anyhow!" Death can't come soon enough for these bastards if you ask me.)

Kate
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 11:24 AM

View PostTruth Warrior, on Apr 16 2006, 07:10 AM, said:

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Hmm..... Canada the 51st state, has kind of a nice ring to it. And it's sure a lot closer than Iraq. :-D


Dude, we're 13 states at least! :-D Too many liberals up here though. Absorb us and we vote, no more republican presidents!! (20 million voters tip the balance nicely.)

Seriously though, when it eventually comes down to an energy crunch we'll be told by the US in no unucertain terms that supplying the US is our first priority. And (assuming we have a government with an IQ over 60) we will bend over and take it with a smile on our faces.
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 11:27 AM

kate --

"Big Oil" has future energy (post oil) pretty well covered too!
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 11:58 AM

View PostTruth Warrior, on Apr 16 2006, 07:27 AM, said:

kate --

"Big Oil" has future energy (post oil) pretty well covered too!


Oh, I'm sure they don't want to miss out on ANY opportunities down the road, for but the foreseeable future I think they are perfectly content with things just the way they are. And why not? We keep paying what they charge, and every so often some dude like Bush comes along who's willing to start wars over it.

I always love it when people send around those "boycott Shell/Exxon" type things. It's such a laugh. What these people fail to grasp is that the retail part of the chain is of minimal interest to Shell and Exxon. They collect on every single barrel even before it's out of the ground and right on through to your tank/product regardless of what sign is on the pump. Otherwise, they wouldn't treat their retailers like dirt, but they do. My favorite is the folks who say, "Go buy Citgo. It's owned by Venezuela, it's for the people!" Hah! I tell them to Google Shell and Venezuela and then we'll talk.

Kate
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 12:33 PM

kate --

Ah, it appears we've found a nerve! :-D

From my perspective you "railing" against Bush is EXACTLY the same as the consumers "railing" against the petro retailers. NOTHING!!!!! The powers that be, are sitting back and laughing their butts off all the way to the bank! :-D I know, it feels good to vent. The truth is BEHIND the public charade! Besides we gotta get that oil for all those SUV driving soccer moms, the "elections" are coming up! Other side wins, same story, same script, new actors! And the "game" goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on................................. We're the audience, and most think it's REAL! :-D

HAGOS!

CYL
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 12:48 PM

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Quote

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." -- Josef Stalin.


P. T. Barnum was right! :-D
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 01:24 PM

View PostTruth Warrior, on Apr 16 2006, 08:48 AM, said:

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P. T. Barnum was right! :-D


Mmmm. You could be right. I really hope you aren't though. :(
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 01:28 PM

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I hope so too! But my record speaks otherwise!!! :-D

CYL
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 01:38 PM

View PostTruth Warrior, on Apr 16 2006, 08:33 AM, said:

kate --

Ah, it appears we've found a nerve! :-D

From my perspective you "railing" against Bush is EXACTLY the same as the consumers "railing" against the petro retailers. NOTHING!!!!! The powers that be, are sitting back and laughing their butts off all the way to the bank! :-D I know, it feels good to vent. The truth is BEHIND the public charade! Besides we gotta get that oil for all those SUV driving soccer moms, the "elections" are coming up! Other side wins, same story, same script, new actors! And the "game" goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on................................. We're the audience, and most think it's REAL! :-D

HAGOS!

CYL


If saying that Bush is capable of starting a war to protect our oil interests equates to railing against Bush, well, then, I dunno. I would think railing would be something wherein I spend the entire post droning on about him, when that was clearly not my intention. But I still maintain that he and other like him are capable of stuff like that. They use the fundamentalist Christians skillfully by raising the spectre of the "devil" Saddam over there in the birthplace of civilization (hah!) and fill up the ranks of the military with believers. Yeah, I think he's a bad, bad guy, but that was not at all the essence of my message.

Actually, my advice to people who think they can boycott their local Shell station and change the price of gasoline is to do the only thing that works and use less. It really doesn't matter where they buy it, no matter what blather they buy into from the Chavez worshippers and such.

Kate
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 01:55 PM

kate --

An awful lot of Dems. voted FOR HIS WAR too, if I remember correctly. Shades of Viet Nam. Deja vu, all over again! :-D I don't recall anyone asking US though, AGAIN!!! The WHOLE game is "rigged", on both sides, and has been for a long, long time! They're ALL just putting on a show, to entertain the folks! A very FEW of us are NOT entertained! :twisted: :-D

CYL
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 02:04 PM

Y'all could try voting for Nader next time....
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 02:09 PM

View PostTruth Warrior, on Apr 16 2006, 09:55 AM, said:

kate --

An awful lot of Dems. voted FOR HIS WAR too, if I remember correctly. Shades of Viet Nam. Deja vu, all over again! :-D I don't recall anyone asking US though, AGAIN!!! The WHOLE game is "rigged", on both sides, and has been for a long, long time! They're ALL just putting on a show, to entertain the folks! A very FEW of us are NOT entertained! :twisted: :-D

CYL


You will get no argument from me on that. Don't assume I'm a Dem because I hammer Bush. If you note from my original post, I don't suggest he is alone in this stuff.

You are correct, the whole game IS rigged.

Use less, that's it.

Kate
...and now we're off to the Cape for a few days. Last time we were there the price of gas was $3.25 a gallon. Deja vu all over again. Happy chocolate everyone!
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